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Eddie B 10:16 Wed Oct 18
NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

... in Hertfordshire.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/17/nhs-provokes-fury-indefinite-surgery-ban-smokers-obese/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Apmjkb7GD7rG

he NHS will ban patients from surgery indefinitely unless they lose weight or quit smoking, under controversial plans drawn up in Hertfordshire.

The restrictions - thought to be the most extreme yet to be introduced by health services - immediately came under attack from the Royal College of Surgeons.

Its vice president called for an “urgent rethink” of policies which he said were “discriminatory” and went against the fundamental principles of the NHS.

Willtell 5:25 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

"The invoicing and collecting of non nationals and the success rate is pathetic."

That's true madeeasy but not until I saw the French system from 1st hand experience, did I realise why that is. Because the French system only covers around 75% of the cost your first meeting at a hospital is with a finance clerk that -
a) checks that you're entitled to get treatrment
b) whether or not you have an insurance scheme
c) if none of those how you propose to pay.

When I used to occasionally turn up at a British hospital as an Englishman there was no checking procedure because it is free at source.

That worked well while foreigners were just an occasional visitor with an emergency of some sort but nowadays, 35% of Londoners were not born in the UK but only need a permanent address for entitlement to free treatment.

Glad you can all afford to keep paying for it because asking over-worked reception clerks to get foreigners details so that they can be charged later will always fail. Which is why in France you pay before treatment! I suspect that that single reason is why the NHS is falling apart.

madeeasy 5:04 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Infidel i would be very much up for a simple and fair Tax regime.

Currently in my eyes it is an over complicated monster that is designed by those at the top for those at the top.

Abolishing CT tax for a dividend tax is a good idea. the problem arises when those individuals own their shares via an offshore vehicle that is based overseas where they don't have to pay tax.

I am fantasising there though rather than being a realist which is what i am generally. it doesn't have to mean i agree with the system though.

FWIW i feel that there should be an outright ban on any tourist health service. i feel it should be a rule of entry that anyone that does come in has to show valid health insurance for the duration of their stay or they are refused entry. With policies sold as double or triple price at entry ports.

The invoicing and collecting of non nationals and the success rate is pathetic.

There is a lot we could change to common sense rules but lets face it we aren't going to make much difference....

Westside 4:20 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

I was in Basildon hospital on Monday and was surprised just how many vending machines there were selling shit like coke and chocolate bars. Even the little snack bars were selling sausage rolls, cakes etc.

Talk of the NHS acting on that sort of thing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/21/nhs-set-ban-sale-sugary-drinks-fatty-snacks-hospital-cafes-canteens/

Cony Tottee 4:16 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

I was in Basildon hospital on Monday and was surprised just how many vending machines there were selling shit like coke and chocolate bars. Even the little snack bars were selling sausage rolls, cakes etc.

Seems a bit much to not treat fatties while feeding them up at the same time!

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 4:02 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Just use BMI with a big margin of error. If you're over 30 you are fat, heavy with muscle or not.

mashed in maryland 3:54 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

BMI, measurements etc.may well be variable and potentially misleading but it's not exactly difficult to pick out someone who's obviously overweight, let alone obese. Ditto dangerously underweight.

Hasans Fish Bar RIP 3:51 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

a bio electrical impedance machine would calculate a far more accurate measure of obesity. im amazed we still use bmi to be fair

scott_d 3:45 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Dr Moose
There are far more sophisticated ways to work obesity than the age old calculation of height over weight and age etc.

It's actually quite easy these days with the right equipment.

nychammer 3:38 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

2 things; first you are lucky to have the NHS. It may not always be gold standard care but the focus is on providing care of the patient as opposed to shareholder profits and it’s the envy of many countries around the world. Secondly, smokers and drinkers and consumers of unhealthy products do pay taxes and rightly so, but are those tax receipts funneled directly back to the NHS to pay for their lung cancer and cirrhosis treatments?

I thInk In certain cases the surgery ban is justified. A smoker should be made to give up before heart bypass and an obese person should be made to lose weight before weight loss surgery to prove they are serious about making lifestyle changes, without which these treatments will ultimately prove to be a waste of time.

Dr Moose 3:11 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

They would have to be clear on what they class as obese, using the chart most of them do anyone who is 6 foot and over12 and half stone could be classed as obese.

Rugby players, especially forwards, could be classed as obese due to height and weight but a lot of that will be toned muscle not fat.

will be a difficult one to implement.

Willtell 3:01 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

It will be the boring old farts not getting NHS treatment next. Not worth saving them and the government gets to save on pension payments. Double benefit of avoiding keeping the miserable old fuckers alive.

You know it makes sense right up to the time when you yourself get to 65 or is it 67 these days....

joyo 2:49 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Good about time, lazy smelly fat cunts

goose 1:35 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Herts leading the way again.

best place to live in the UK.

Darby_ 1:35 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

A lot of bitter fatties in this thread.

w4hammer 1:24 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

NHs should just ban idiots/wannabe gangsters and health tourists - private surgeries , based on a £ per minute would both cut the strain and also boost funds.

A&E is full of street niggers who've been stabbing each other - they view it as an occupational habit. Fuck 'em and let them pay for it.

Poster carded for this

Infidel 1:04 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

madeeasy

No, we don't agree at all.

What is the 'right' tax, as you put it?

I think Corporation Tax should be abolished altogether, which I'm guessing you would not agree with.

CT is a tax on profits. But there is also another tax on those same profits - dividend tax. So the shareholders of a business have to pay tax twice on the same profits, once when they file their accounts at the end of the year and again when they take out what's left as a dividend.

Why not just abolish CT and keep the dividend tax, so that taxes are levied on shareholders at the point where they draw the money out, as a dividend. That would make a lot more sense.

By the way dividend taxes are very high - 38% at the top rate, so it seems to me there is no argument to tax shareholders any more by imposing CT as well.

charleyfarley 12:42 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

On my visits to hospitals some of the nurses could do with losing a few stone

Westside 12:40 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

plus those companies are allowed to have their profit sent overseas thus lowering the tax they pay here.

Why turn a debate about tax collection v cost of health treatment, into a an anti business diatribe?

Any case, in Corporation Tax terms (not allocating any to companies that make fags and booze etc), revenues have INCREASED in recent years, as the rates have been cut. £56 billion was paid by UK businesses in Corporation Tax in 2016/17. A 21% rise on the previous year.

madeeasy 12:33 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Infidel

i think we both agree. I am not suggesting for one moment it is right for any of those companies and feel that all money earned in that jurisdiction should pay the real tax in that area for it.

That's why countries have dual taxation treaties.

Ikea as your argument said would charge a hefty "IP" fee to the UK from Lichtenstein to avert tax in the UK and pay it from Lichtenstein which i am guessing is zero.

I do not suggest that it is illegal or wrong.

Just saying that if these largercorporations were made to pay the right tax rather than pay large cunt accountants and lawyers to find ways to get around it then morally they may be better companies for doing so.

But as we know the world, Unfortunately, isn't run on a moral value anymore.

If everyone lived along the rough lines of treat someone how you want to be treated yourself then we may just have a slightly nicer society.

BTW i know a little inside info about JK and the HP play that is in the west end. I can't talk about it on here but there is an interesting moral dilemma about who gets paid what.

Infidel 12:21 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

madeeasy

I'm sorry but that's just ignorance of the highest order.

Let me put it this way: J K Rowling's Harry Potter books have sold millions of copies all over the world. The HP franchise is a goldmine.

No matter where the books are sold the royalties flow back to Ms Rowling and she pays taxes to HMRC on the vast profits she makes.

I haven't noticed you jumping up and down about the injustice to taxpayers in the US, France, Germany and elsewhere about taxes being collected in the UK when the actual book sales take place in those countries.

The taxes are paid in the UK because the intellectual property - the bit that makes Harry Potter books valuable - resides in the UK with Ms Rowling.

It's exactly the same with Starbucks. Just as the paper Harry Potter books are printed on doesn't add any real value, so the actual coffee served up by Starbucks baristas is almost irrelevant.

Starbucks is a branded cafe 'concept', which you may love or hate as you prefer, but either way the intellectual property resides in the US. That's why it is absolutely right that corporation taxes are paid there and not where the coffee is sold.

That said there are some aggressive tax practices where the IP has been created in one tax jurisdiction and then moved to another one to benefit from lower taxes. IKEA for example isn't really Swedish at all. The owners moved the IP to Lichtenstein some years ago, so when you buy a flat pack cupboard at your local IKEA it generates royalties which are taxed in Lichtenstein.

Of course the IKEA owners didn't choose Lichtenstein by throwing a dart at a map of Europe. They located it there precisely because they pay little or no tax whereas in communist Sweden income taxes are almost 70% and taxes on everything else are astronomical.

Every country has at its disposal a quick and easy way to attract lots of companies in to domicile themselves there: cut corporation tax. Or better still, abolish it altogether.

High corporation taxes are a choice, not an obligation, and I have no sympathy for countries bleating about companies off shoring whilst maintaining high CT rates. Just cut them and the businesses will all come back.

riosleftsock 12:10 Wed Oct 18
Re: NHS to ban surgeries on smokers and obese

Children born of parents who are first cousins should also not be treated by the NHS, lifestyle choice known to lead to complicated, expensive medical treatment.

People should not be allowed into the UK if they are attempting to migrate from countries where there are known high levels of Aids, TB etc wthout having medical screening.

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